Less Limitations with Strat/Default Units?

I would like more control over default units in Atwar mapmaking. Standard units without limits preferably. I want to create Main Attack units with more than just 7 HP. I want to create Air Transports that I can stealth or reduce or even increase their capacity.

I dont see why we have these limitations becuase given a certain amount of freedom, I can manipulate them to create entirely different and effective units. Like the Fighters in my Ultimate WWII map. They are Air: Main Attack Units but act exactly like Fighters. They are faster than bombers and Bombers have lower defense against them. They also gain benefits from SM aswell as the negatives so a Fighter becomes quite a good Anti Bomber unit but using SM must sacrifice Defense.

A tank with 135 cost with 8 HP would be quite good.

Is there a reason why we have these limitations? Its custom map making, surely that gives us better control?

Agreed. Because of these limitations on some of my maps I have had to resort to making all units Ground, Air, and Naval "Other" units which makes strategies useless.

Napisao Guest, 15.07.2013 at 01:01

No support, limitations are obvious... so people don't make maps with main: attack units with 100 attack and such. You complain o i want it to have 8 hp.. well if the limit was set at 8 then soemone would complain o I want it to have 9hp.... there has to be a lien drawn soemwhere and thats where it was drawn. Deal with it

No, Im not going to deal with it. A greater variety of attributes on stratedgy units means I can create my own cutstom units with the benefits and negatives when a player chooses a strat.

8HP is pushing it? Oh please. The HP has never changed. And yes, I would like to make a Main Attack with 20 HP for a map I have in mind.

No, this isn't excessive in the slightest.If we wanted to create maps with mass op'd units, we can already do so with the '': Other'' units, with large ''150''s and ''9''s on the stats but this does not happen and those that do it have been punished which makes the cost of doing it, unworthy of the benefits.

The fact remains that I want a much greater variety of attributes to create much better custom maps to give more strategic variance. There is no drawback to this.

And don't use the slippery slope argument here. Noone, at least not to my knowledge, has asked for lesser limitations on standard strat units. It's a small and hopefully simple request that will give me greater powers to create greater maps. I have alot of ideas for them.

Napisao Guest, 15.07.2013 at 01:25

Just make it with "other" units then...

No, because these dont have the benefits of the strats you pick which I find is core to a good map and its longevity.

A Ground: Main Attack with 8HP is good for a unique unit type for a specific player. For instance, in my Dark Ages map, I have a Kataphratoi unit which is a heavy armoured cavalry. As of right now, it has one extra defense but I would prefer to give it one extra HP instead.

In Ultimate WWII, I have a Stealthed Air: Other Transport that I would like to be an Air: Transport becuase it would have the benefits aswell as limitations of strats.

In many of my maps, especially WWII, I have created entirely new units that woudl work great if I could place them among the different strats. These benefits and negatives help with balance, uniqueness and diversity of play. It creates heatlhy competition with multiple avenues to wield the units with interesting gameplay that develops with each unique player.

There is no downside to this in terms of gameplay or cheaters. It just gives custom map makers better cntrol and a way to adapt the units how they want.

Napisao Guest, 15.07.2013 at 11:23

No support

No rebuttal. You have no argument as to why cutsom map makers shouldnt be able to edit defualt unit stats. Your only argument is defeated by the fact Other units can achieve the same affect and they aren't an issue.

You have no argument against it so your lack of support is meaningless.

Napisao Guest, 15.07.2013 at 18:06

Napisao Tik-Tok, 15.07.2013 at 17:06

Napisao Guest, 15.07.2013 at 11:23

No support

No rebuttal. You have no argument as to why cutsom map makers shouldnt be able to edit defualt unit stats. Your only argument is defeated by the fact Other units can achieve the same affect and they aren't an issue.

You have no argument against it so your lack of support is meaningless.

^_^ Your not going to make me support this. I think Amoks reasoning for the limitations is good and just.

These aren't Amoks words, they are your words and you have given zero reasoning as to why its a bad idea. Your only argument is destroyed by Other units which have far less limitations and dont give these sorts of problems.

So explain why its a bad idea and if not, dont claim to not support when you have any relevant info or opposing logic to the proposition. Im not asking for 99 HP and 1 cost. Im asking for lesser limitations which as a cutsom map maker who wants to push boundaries should have eveyr right to do.

I am being held back by default unit limitations which stop me from making units in maps with a greater variety of strats.

This is far more important than your arrogant little jest of an argument which has no foundation. I am not shaking the pillars of the heavens here, I simply want lesser limitations which I feel entitled to as a map maker trying to deliver good content.

Napisao Guest, 15.07.2013 at 19:20

Amok made the limitations for a reason and I will stand by him ^_^ no need to be rude to me xaxa, I continue not supporting!

Amok made many things but you first claimed your reasonings were his reasonins and now you claim Amok said nothing. As I have said, you have no reason to support or not support, meaning your opinion is useless. If you had a logical deduction as to why it's a bad idea, I would listen but your entire answer is, ''they must be there for a reason.'' ''We can't give 8HP because what happens if someone wants 9hp?'' So? Why is that a bad thing?

I want 10-20HP. I want to make a War of the Worlds map where the Giant Tripods are Ground: Main Attack with large HP. ''Other'' units provide no strategic benefits or negatives.

I want my Aircraft Carriers in WWII to be Sea: Transport so that Naval gets a benefit from them. This isn't just about strats, this also includes upgrades so peoples upgrades come into play. ''Other'' units dont recieve unit type specific upgrades. They dont recieve strategic benefits or negative. I can understand the use of Other units and their extreme stats but Im not asking for extreme stats. Im asking for better control for better gameplay. I dont think Amok would be against that.

You are but you have no reasoning for it. Which sadly, makes your lack of support null as it has no backing.

Napisao Guest, 15.07.2013 at 01:25

Just make it with "other" units then...

Can I just say this argument is a bit silly? Clearly if Terminal had actually read the responses that Tik-Tok typed out he/she would read that the reason Tik wants the ability to do what can already be done with custom units, to be done with main units, so that strategies ( a clearly important piece of content from the dev's, seeing as SP earned in game is designed to purchases strategies) can be used to advance game play to a new level.

I also have to say to Tik, I'd probably just ignore what Terminal is responding with unless their argument actually has some foundation in the circumstances of the post or atleast state an opinion that has a real reason for it.

Napisao Guest, 16.07.2013 at 23:58

So no support I don't think you should be able to make a main attack unit that is vastly different then the default main attck unit

I think tik tok just gets mad whenever anybody disagrees and I find it quite funny as well but it would be interesting if amok responded on this forum to what his reason for unit limitation is. I'm sure he has better things to do though ^_^ he actually is married unlike some forever alone people

Why not? I would also like to lower the stats so I can make even weaker main units, not just stronger.

Again, your entire argument has been ''there are limitations because Amok made them so that's my reason.'' That isn't an argument. And you claim I am angry, where am I angry? I made consistent logical rebuttals to your childish one line sentences and now that you have been proven wrong and openly disagreed with by other community members, you decide to claim you were trolling all along?

I don't care about Amoks personal life, that's not my business, I don't mean that personally but I dont see how Amoks personal life is relevant here. Im not asking for radical changes, im not asking for pain staking time to be taken away from someones life. I just asked for lesser limitations on Main default units in custom maps. Limitations on Other units were eased when Admins were asked.

There is no argument against this other than the fear of cheating, which has been prevented in the past. I see no opposing argument here. I just want better control of default custom units which will give better gameplay.

I dont see anyone against this whoholds a logical and reasonable argument. The community would mostly back this. Mapmakers on the whole are in support.

Why isn't this getting attention? I would really like a reply. I have map and unit ideas waiting to be made but cannot do them without the easing of limitations on main units in custom.

For instance, even minor things clearly have no logical reasoning not to OK unless its a coding issue.

Like allowing an Air: Transport unit to be stealthed. What reasoning would anyone have against this? It can't be cheated with. You can't get extra SP from it. What would be the problem with having a stealth option for any main unit? It would'nt draw away from strats. In actual fact, it would force more people to get premium to use the benefits of the strats given by different custom default units. It's not like someone can make a unit the same as a fully upgraded unit and give up on premium or gaining SP because a higher rank will still have the upgrades which make them better.

Lesser limitations on custom units would enforce the strat system in a much bigger way rather than creating ''Other'' units.

I believe this would incentivize more use of premium aswell as bring more stratedgy to the custom maps. The key to a great map is variety. Lesser limitations increase variety and better gameplay.

Napisao Guest, 18.07.2013 at 09:49

Tl;dr

split into two post as well xaxa good luck with stealth transports btw

''Guise, i woz trollin', I swear.''

I would also like to add that submarines are already a stealth transport even if they can only transport marines. So a flying stealth transport that could only transport other stealth units would probably be fine...

Surely support this for custom maps and/or scenarios, especially the larger ones we have where Strategies are more or less useless since we're forced to make all units in Other when the basic units won't allow some changes to be applied.

Let me step right in...

Napisao Guest, 18.07.2013 at 09:49

Tl;dr

split into two post as well xaxa good luck with stealth transports btw

Stealth transports would only be stealth if they carry a stealth unit. Thus carrying a tank in a stealth transport will not make the tank or transport stealth. (tested)

On topic:

I agree with Tik's idea of giving map makers the ability to change the default unit stats. It would help the map makers themselves, alter unit stats and make all stats "balanced".

Conclusion: I support this idea.

I support hats....