Game Mechanics Question -- Collateral

My apologies if this thread is redundant, but my searches didn't turn up anything.

So I was wondering if somebody with more experience can tell me how the collateral system actually works.

Is collateral calculated per attack, or per battle? If it is per attack, I could try to bomb large stacks of militia to try and run down my opponent's economy, but if its per battle, that would be useless.

How much damage does, say, 4 collateral actually represent? Is it 4% of the city population? -0.4 reinforcements? -4 income? 4 deaths? 4,000 deaths?

Please reply. Thanks in advance.

Very interesting question. I can answer the first one. It is per attack. If you send a bomber to a emply city and you win the battle, even if you dont capture the city the income will still be lowered to 50%. And also you can notice when someone attack you with 50+ troops and somehow you defend... your income also get downgraded.

Ironically, the game does not show collateral on units menu. lol.

I see. Well, that makes sense.

Anyone have any ideas about my second question?

These are the units that possess collateral damage:

Default units
Bomber: 4
Stealth: 3
Tanks: 2
Destroyer: 2
Helicopters: 1

Rare units
Afterwind: 50
Broken missile: 20
Heavy tanks: 2
Light tanks: 1

As to collateral and its implications on population, income and reinforcement:
Tested 8 Bombers + 1 Infantry combination on several major cities (either 8 Infantry or 8 Militia cities) and the results were unanimous: Population decreases to 94% and income reduces to 50%. Reinforcements remained at 8, except in one case it dropped to 7.
Further research is required, specially on middle-sized cities. Population will probably (I assume) drop in the same proportion (to 94%) and income to 50%, but the drop in population may mean a significant reduction of reinforcement. Finally, I just tested against neutral units and some bombers didn't even engage in battle. What if there is a huge player stack in a city and this one is going to be attacked by a huge force of bombers? Will this increase the collateral on the city, since more bombers are engaging battle (and creating collateral)? Or is it a linear drop in population, income and reinforcement?

Napisao Columna Durruti, 10.10.2014 at 09:59

and income reduces to 50%.

This only happens when you win the battle and you capture the city though.

Napisao clovis1122, 10.10.2014 at 10:49

Napisao Columna Durruti, 10.10.2014 at 09:59

and income reduces to 50%.

This only happens when you win the battle and you capture the city though.

Correct. Otherwise it drops to 0%. That's why I sent 1 Infantry along with the bombers.

Napisao Columna Durruti, 10.10.2014 at 16:52

Correct. Otherwise it drops to 0%. That's why I sent 1 Infantry along with the bombers.

wut? If you attack, let say, moscow ( 8 infantry) with 8 bombers and 1 infantry... the income goes to 0% ? WTF I though it start at 50% then 75% then 100%...

Napisao clovis1122, 10.10.2014 at 16:54

Napisao Columna Durruti, 10.10.2014 at 16:52

Correct. Otherwise it drops to 0%. That's why I sent 1 Infantry along with the bombers.

wut? If you attack, let say, moscow ( 8 infantry) with 8 bombers and 1 infantry... the income goes to 0% ? WTF I though it start at 50% then 75% then 100%...

Nope, if you attack a city with 8 bombers and 1 infantry (and you take it) population drops to 93-95% and income to 50%.

Napisao Columna Durruti, 10.10.2014 at 16:57

Nope, if you attack a city with 8 bombers and 1 infantry (and you take it) population drops to 93-95% and income to 50%.

I am even more confused.... Please let clarify this:

•) If you attack a city and you win the battle, the income is reset to 50% regardless if you take the city or not.

So I want to know in which chase you say the income drops to 0%. Because if you send 10 bombers vs 8 infantry and you win, the income still reset to 50% right?

Napisao clovis1122, 10.10.2014 at 17:01

If you attack a city and you win the battle, the income is reset to 50% regardless if you take the city or not.

So I want to know in which chase you say the income drops to 0%. Because if you send 10 bombers vs 8 infantry and you win, the income still reset to 50% right?

Ok, all that I can state is: if you attack a city with 8 bombers and 1 infantry (99% of chance of taking) then the income drops to 50% and population to 93-95% of the original value.
If you attack a city with 8 bombers, you'll never take it and city stats shows that population dropped to 93-95% of original value and income dropped to 0 (probably due to the fact you haven't taken it).

Napisao Columna Durruti, 10.10.2014 at 17:12

Ok, all that I can state is: if you attack a city with 8 bombers and 1 infantry (99% of chance of taking) then the income drops to 50% and population to 93-95% of the original value.

The chance of win that battle are less that 80%.. with SM:

Napisao Columna Durruti, 10.10.2014 at 17:12

If you attack a city with 8 bombers, you'll never take it and city stats shows that population dropped to 93-95% of original value and income dropped to 0 (probably due to the fact you haven't taken it).

Impressive though:


But that only work against neutral. If you try against a player then it goes to 50%.

I'm pretty sure that collateral doesn't affect the city if there are no units inside, and that income only goes down to 50% only if you take the city, but it goes back up quickly to 100% within a turn or two.

Napisao clovis1122, 10.10.2014 at 17:31

The chance of win that battle are less that 80%.. with SM:

Right and gets even less without strategy.

I have other question. I am sure infantry have collateral damange... but how much?

Thank you, Columna Durruti, for your answer.

I'll run some tests on smaller cities, since you did the tests on major cities.

Napisao clovis1122, 11.10.2014 at 10:42

I have other question. I am sure infantry have collateral damange... but how much?

According to this not.

Napisao Columna Durruti, 10.10.2014 at 09:59

These are the units that possess collateral damage:

Default units
Bomber: 4
Stealth: 3
Tanks: 2
Destroyer: 2
Helicopters: 1

Rare units
Afterwind: 50
Broken missile: 20
Heavy tanks: 2
Light tanks: 1

According to some tests YES!

Maybe it's rounded? So Infantry actually has .4 collateral or something, and is rounded to the nearest integer.

You know, it'd be pretty funny if there were negative collateral units. More battles makes the city stronger...

Napisao International, 15.10.2014 at 09:06

Maybe it's rounded? So Infantry actually has .4 collateral or something, and is rounded to the nearest integer.

You know, it'd be pretty funny if there were negative collateral units. More battles makes the city stronger...

About the first statement... I think no. Check out some test.

Imagen 1 This is Nantes before I attack it with infantry only. Population: 600,000
Imagen 2 Nantes after I attacked. Population got reduced by 5%, that is, 29,000.

---

Imagen 3 Lyon after being taken by infantry - Population drop 3%

---

Imagen 4 Aarhus taken. There was no unit, so no battle, so no population dies.

Now, check the next screenshots. I think while more rolls, more collateral damange:

First one: I attacked both Bordeaux and Tolouse. Both cities have 3 infantry ( I dont know population). Theses are the result:



Less unit dies in Tolouse.. This is traduced to less rolls. In bordeaux, almost 5 units dies. It was a match with either few high rolls + criticals OR a lot of low rolls.



Again, less units dead in frankfurt where nobody of my units dies, than in cologne.

Napisao clovis1122, 10.10.2014 at 17:31

Napisao Columna Durruti, 10.10.2014 at 17:12

Ok, all that I can state is: if you attack a city with 8 bombers and 1 infantry (99% of chance of taking) then the income drops to 50% and population to 93-95% of the original value.

The chance of win that battle are less that 80%.. with SM:

Napisao Columna Durruti, 10.10.2014 at 17:12

If you attack a city with 8 bombers, you'll never take it and city stats shows that population dropped to 93-95% of original value and income dropped to 0 (probably due to the fact you haven't taken it).

Impressive though:


But that only work against neutral. If you try against a player then it goes to 50%.

Hey! Look at that Nice to see it's helping.
I wouldn't 100% rely on that, though. AW's actual mechanics are a 'bit' different (Seriously, nothing yet explains very usual insane results when big stacks attack much smaller ones) Also, that's not counting the 1 inf.

I think an AW scenario should be used instead of the calculator for now.