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Napisao Kaska, 19.06.2021 at 03:16
In my opinion, three things must be done before anything else :
The tutorial
The tutorial
The tutorial
The rest is conversation
Personal note from me- the tutorial is practically hopeless. The number one thing that I check for- is can they triangle wall, most people have no idea how to triangle wall once they finish the tutorial, or how to wall at all.
I have to show them like the screenshot-gif for them to actually get it... and that's not in the tutorial.
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Napisao Alois, 18.06.2021 at 21:15
Napisao Oleg, 18.06.2021 at 17:36
we also must deal with toxicity in our community (which we have been dealing with for months now). We do not need immature players that have been punished in the past for bad behavior to give us negative reviews for no objective reason.
In my opinion, this game has great chances to exponentially increase its playerbase if we make it new players - friendly and eliminate toxicity. Much worse games of similiar genre have bigger communities, I could talk about names aswell, but I will leave details for private conv with Dave I guess.
We need more meta gaming going on, Toxicity can be controlled but it can't be stopped. 2014-2017 AW had the most meta gaming going on and it not only brought activity to the game because it used more than just the game its self but it also brought players in naturally. Maybe we could work on bringing more... rivalries, alliances, etc. You don't see that here anymore and it was what made the game so good on top of everything already going on.
You mean, you want somebody to screw over, not that I haven't screwed anyone over.
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Napisao Alois, 19.06.2021 at 18:00
Napisao winkcat, 17.06.2021 at 23:50
Good idea, but i dont think moving to steam will have much affect
atwar is just kinda old and isn't attractive to kids and teens and they wont play it regardless if its on steam.
i think this game was successful because it was a pretty well made strategy game that didn't require a ton of load on your pc like total war during the days where everyone had pretty shit pcs
now we all got good pcs, what does this game have to offer that other games cant?
how does this game compare to other strategy games?
plus, even if it goes on steam, it might get negative reviews which would be potentially very damaging to the game when attracting new players
maybe this game can be revived if dave burns a ton of cash on it and hires more programmers, but i dont think he is willing to spend that cash
so overall i don't think going on steam is a good idea at the current state of the game
Napisao Ivan., 18.06.2021 at 02:30
It's what totally me and SunTzu been saying this game needs to move on to some game engine to get more player base and steam is by so far that can help out player base problem.
Second thing this game needs a major update to be on the line to attract players and so many other areas that need to be revised again, which means coding part.
If the game allows channels to create content on history where there are several channels on youtube this will be another boom for Atwar to grow I think they would love to use this product as it will allow them to actually show units, reality based map, battles expansions and much more.
Ooga booga simple game won't work
Yet Travian, Supremacy, Ikariam have millions of players...
Napisao Sid, 18.06.2021 at 09:51
I wonder what our user retention should be? I don't know what it is, but I wonder how far off the mark we are from similar games.
Napisao Dave, 18.06.2021 at 06:43
What I'm really focusing on though is trying to solve the user retention issue at its core. Any QoL update I've done has just been quick & easy stuff to try and keep the existing community happy -- nothing really complicated. My real interest is how to get brand new users to stick around for longer periods of time. That's why I've done things like updating the tutorial (I know, still a work in progress, but its better than it was before); updating the start game UI to expose people to more variety of maps; giving free players the ability to play promo'd maps; giving daily login SP to encourage repeat activity; giving PC earnings from games to encourage people to stay all the way to the end and not abandon; putting a lot of effort into reducing toxicity and making this a friendlier environment (which continues to be a struggle, but we have achieved the removal of some of the worst people); and putting a lot of effort into building the Supporters team to help/mentor newbies.
Epic games could be a better option, they seem to be spending a lot of money to give free games to people so maybe they'd even pay something to get atwar on their platform. Otherwise steam would be a good option too, if Dave is serious about this then maybe he should look back at the old silverlight launcher that we had since that was already a standalone launcher that worked and wasn't buggy HTML5. It would still take a little work of course but the building blocks are there I believe.
Napisao Dave, 18.06.2021 at 09:43
Napisao Ivan., 18.06.2021 at 08:50
Napisao Dave, 18.06.2021 at 06:43
why dont you encourage youtube channels to use this platform to make their content that basically only focus on history related to wars or shout out their multi times the list I've talked about in my previous comment is the charm the might use for their content and their user base will find out about this game and who knows who finds interest in it.
maybe some sort of agreement or payment can help out
We've reached out to a lot of youtube channels and they all want money. We did pay Kings & Generals (a lot of money, btw) and just like everything else, we got a bunch of new users and 0 stuck around. It's not so easy.
OK. I see many good points and even more bad ones. It's not your fault, probably most of you are not web developers or software engineers at all, given that you are adults in the first place. Let me give you my point of view of the retention issue.
RETENTION ISSUE
In order to sustain a straight retention value on the graphs, we need to keep the players enganged. It's necessary to focus on retention and engagement at once. How can atwar engage the youth (gamers)? Has anything changed massively since 2010? The short answer is no, nothing changed at all. Risk is a board game like Chess. Has chess become boring since 3000 BC or so, when it was first played in China? No. Strategy games do not age. They improve by generation changes, graphics, and complexity. No strategy game could ever replicate reality 100%, so in fact, atwar is fine for a few more decades at least. It is not "aging" in this term.
I would say risk is almost as popular as chess, they're even competing in western cultures. This theoretically means in terms of available people - as long as atwar has no competitor in this area, - we are absolutely fine. A very easy concept that has been developed into a virtual strategy game. The unique value of atwar relies in this. We should stick to this matter as it's an amazing resource for advertisement (unless we find something better, highly doubt it).
We should return to the roots instead. Why do people prefer atwar? Why would they spend 3 hours conquering the world as China: Southeast instead of sitting in front of their newest Creative Assembly (total war), Taleword (mount and blade), Paradox Interactive (hearts of iron), or Firaxis (civilization) games? Because it's different. It's based on a board game (risk), and started developing in a way that is outstanding, plus eventually managed to find a marketing gap, either by accident or on purpose. To understand this let's take a look back to the early development of atwar.
UNIQUITY OF ATWAR
Now investigate atwar's essential strength (compared to risk board game and strategy games):
1. Besides world map it offers an astonishing customization option, the map editor (which is similar to modding, user-generated sandbox is always attractive for strategy gamers in my experience), where you can replicate and change about everything in the game, setup your own playground.
2. Great potential in the cities-countries system, which also provides the opportunity for further implementations.
3. It features several - on paper unlimited - different types of units, like in modern strategy games.
4. Given the fact we are online, it's a great social activity if you consider that Hearts of Iron or Civilization multiplayer lobbies are almost dead. Their communities live on the games' forums, private communities and such. Atwar can't and shouldn't try to compete with large titles, it's an entirely different story.
4.1. We utilize people to people combat, both real time and casual strategy. That's extraordinary.
5. Quality of Life focused, clean and modern UI design. Brilliant solutions that brought and then upgraded the concept of a board game.
6. Derives from the golden era of Total War series: turn based RTS, almost standalone idea.
And now the weaknesses, where we should definitely improve:
1. Overall design of the User Interface, map editor and such. The game was already giving retro vibes back in 2012-2014, now in 2021 this contrasts even more (in a bad meaning this time). The most important thing here is the in-game interface, obviously.
1.1. Add more colors, make the panels easier to handle, make it more user friendly, change the UI in a way suitable for future expansions and updates, like if it was designed for a 12 years old.
2. Quantity matters too - probably more than quality - in a strategy game. We need more units, more strategies, more CONTENT. This must remain nearly ignorant to the parallel quality changes (adding two buttons or three to the interface and changing the background shouldn't prevent us from adding logistic wizard strategy, right? object orientation in the development team too, please...)
2.1. Seasonality. 3 months for a cw season is a thing. On the other hand we don't get any content changes, or they are just minimal and disappointing, see point 2.
3. To make atwar more interesting and engaging, it needs depth. No, I don't mean witch doctor's and froyer's walling skills in cw. I mean things like improved diplomacy, more types of cities, units, generals (remember tank general? inner joke nevermind XD), better naval and air combat (ground dominates now).
4. Game settings tend to look like we are in a beta phase. Limited to 20 players, then limited to 40. Limited to 4 teams. You cannot disable buildings. You need premium to have extra cities. This can be modified either way: add more premium options as the game develops or make it a free feature and focus premium on something else. As JUGERS once said, we need more customization, not less. He might have been wrong with the buildings, but in general, he was right.
5. Development is so diverse and elitist, every single update I've seen so far in the last 3 years was focusing on bugfixes and improving CW. Dave please, a decade passed, listen to the peasants not the nobles. I promise it will benefit all of us. We need ranked games, new game modes, not improving fucking eu 3v3 cw. We can keep eu 3v3 cw nearly the same even if the game has a lot of news to it... so the 10 years old atwar players can satisfy themselves in the old cw, incubated... whatever.
6. This is a counter argument here. Nobody cares about toxicity. We don't have 80 games running in the beginner lobby so that we can ban people like waffel. They're one of the most important members of the community. Fortnite players will never come to atwar. I believe our vast majority of players are mature adults, and only minor percentage of them is toxic, like the rest of the internet (...)
PERSONAL SUGGESTIONS
1. AI for the neutrals. Complicated but probably worth the efforts.
2. More diplomacy options, for example a reworked system where you can trade your resources or land to someone.
2.1. Bound resources to countries, for example natural gas in Russia: Siberia. Do not question it. Ask people. Implement it.
3. Quality of Life improvements like auto-unit-moving? For example if you hold down CTRL key and click 3 places, the unit will try to move to those places in the next 3 turns, except if it's interrupted by a player's wall or the sea. This is very useful if we want to add more complexity to the game, it saves a lot of time, similar to auto-production.
4. Map views. If more things are implemented, it's necessary to add more views to the map. I mean an income view that ranges from green to red to see where is the most money on the map, a reinforcements view, a naval view, an air view, etcetera. Not just stealth detection and move range views.
4.1. This game lacks missiles. I don't care how you implement it. Maybe Notify the player with a red spot above the city or something that indicates a rocket is coming in next turn, so you cannot abuse the 100 move range of a rocket. It should also be more limited. This is related to world map now, but it would be even greater for custom maps.
5. Steam and Epic Games sound not good but NECESSARY steps to keep the game alive and grow it. Is it on steam? No. Will we have less players if no one clicks on our steam advert? No. Then no comment. Even though, the game should be improved for this... in first hand.
6. More types of units. Or just simply more units. How long are we asking for trucks, trains, aircraft carriers, cruisers (...) ?
7. One general is a nice minimalistic thing, very good for competitive play. Larger scenarios require stuff like a field officer unit update, similar to general, it could be highlighted with some different element instead of a star with different bonuses and upgrades.
8. The upgrades. Holy moly. Double it. Triple it. Quadruple it. Make current ones cheaper. More premium options. End of story.
9. As I mentioned the UI is trash. You already know this by now Dave, and everyone else, but still I have to mention it. The chat keeps jumping down to the newest message, spectators' message can still be seen after ignoring, I don't know if moderators have a panel with buttons or they still use commands, lack of kick and host swap options in the lobby, unpleasantly aged forum, some menus are hard to find or are in the inappropriate spot (like the elo calculator), etc...
10. A variety of ranked games, not just cw. This would be great for a more challenging, but also more rewarding (sp, pc) game mode. There has been dozens of cw suggestions, I won't go into this in depth now. But keep in mind that cw at the moment is fine, and absolutely not prior #1 to change. Keep it as it is for now.
11. Numerous other things, I could write a book, but hopefully you got the idea by now. Whoever you are dear reader if you got this far, bless you.
SOLUTIONS FOR RETENTION
The whole point of my long message summarized, let's see.
In order to gain players and solve this retention issue the answer is quite simple. We need continuity. We need to continously, seasonally upgrade the game, hence why I provided ideas above. There is a lot to add or change to make the game more attractive and engaging for newcomers. Atwar has twitter, discord, even facebook if I know right, so we should start posting about the new MASSIVE updates there. Not two new strategy and one of them is taken away again. No... This leads to nowhere.
Generally speaking, twitter and discord are good to keep the community engaged and active, but the most important thing is probably twitch or youtube (and epic games or steam for obvious reasons as mentioned before...). I would support Sid in his videos but let's face the fact that he is an unpopular person on youtube. Who play games? The youth. How will we attract the youth? Through videos and streams. That's the current trend.
For example we should invest into some strategy game player with 200 thousand subscribers on youtube, asking him to make a professional showcase video or gameplay series of atwar. Now think about it for a second. Is atwar ready for this level of advertisement? Or we need to change a lot of stuff. Yes. If you think about it, we need to change a lot of stuff. What arre you waiting for... go continue coding or giving ideas to Dave.
In my opinion this is the straightforward way to success. Not only to bring atwar back to life, but to gain a larger playerbase than we ever had. It's not as hard as you think. And I think I have not said anything new. Just the fact we all know. We need content to advertise. Then advertise to gain content idea, then repeat. This is the definition of development.
Thanks for reading it all, greetings.
P.S.: Ivan and Sun Tzu are possibly the most competent people who understand this problem. Excluding Sid and Dave.
The most well made forum post I've seen yet, give it an upvote
We have plans for everything you just said. Just need volunteers
Working in the Supporter Team is like being a little worker bee, endless repetition- with nothing "new" to do.
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Napisao Alois, 19.06.2021 at 18:00
Napisao winkcat, 17.06.2021 at 23:50
Good idea, but i dont think moving to steam will have much affect
atwar is just kinda old and isn't attractive to kids and teens and they wont play it regardless if its on steam.
i think this game was successful because it was a pretty well made strategy game that didn't require a ton of load on your pc like total war during the days where everyone had pretty shit pcs
now we all got good pcs, what does this game have to offer that other games cant?
how does this game compare to other strategy games?
plus, even if it goes on steam, it might get negative reviews which would be potentially very damaging to the game when attracting new players
maybe this game can be revived if dave burns a ton of cash on it and hires more programmers, but i dont think he is willing to spend that cash
so overall i don't think going on steam is a good idea at the current state of the game
Napisao Ivan., 18.06.2021 at 02:30
It's what totally me and SunTzu been saying this game needs to move on to some game engine to get more player base and steam is by so far that can help out player base problem.
Second thing this game needs a major update to be on the line to attract players and so many other areas that need to be revised again, which means coding part.
If the game allows channels to create content on history where there are several channels on youtube this will be another boom for Atwar to grow I think they would love to use this product as it will allow them to actually show units, reality based map, battles expansions and much more.
Ooga booga simple game won't work
Yet Travian, Supremacy, Ikariam have millions of players...
Napisao Sid, 18.06.2021 at 09:51
I wonder what our user retention should be? I don't know what it is, but I wonder how far off the mark we are from similar games.
Napisao Dave, 18.06.2021 at 06:43
What I'm really focusing on though is trying to solve the user retention issue at its core. Any QoL update I've done has just been quick & easy stuff to try and keep the existing community happy -- nothing really complicated. My real interest is how to get brand new users to stick around for longer periods of time. That's why I've done things like updating the tutorial (I know, still a work in progress, but its better than it was before); updating the start game UI to expose people to more variety of maps; giving free players the ability to play promo'd maps; giving daily login SP to encourage repeat activity; giving PC earnings from games to encourage people to stay all the way to the end and not abandon; putting a lot of effort into reducing toxicity and making this a friendlier environment (which continues to be a struggle, but we have achieved the removal of some of the worst people); and putting a lot of effort into building the Supporters team to help/mentor newbies.
Epic games could be a better option, they seem to be spending a lot of money to give free games to people so maybe they'd even pay something to get atwar on their platform. Otherwise steam would be a good option too, if Dave is serious about this then maybe he should look back at the old silverlight launcher that we had since that was already a standalone launcher that worked and wasn't buggy HTML5. It would still take a little work of course but the building blocks are there I believe.
Napisao Dave, 18.06.2021 at 09:43
Napisao Ivan., 18.06.2021 at 08:50
Napisao Dave, 18.06.2021 at 06:43
why dont you encourage youtube channels to use this platform to make their content that basically only focus on history related to wars or shout out their multi times the list I've talked about in my previous comment is the charm the might use for their content and their user base will find out about this game and who knows who finds interest in it.
maybe some sort of agreement or payment can help out
We've reached out to a lot of youtube channels and they all want money. We did pay Kings & Generals (a lot of money, btw) and just like everything else, we got a bunch of new users and 0 stuck around. It's not so easy.
OK. I see many good points and even more bad ones. It's not your fault, probably most of you are not web developers or software engineers at all, given that you are adults in the first place. Let me give you my point of view of the retention issue.
RETENTION ISSUE
In order to sustain a straight retention value on the graphs, we need to keep the players enganged. It's necessary to focus on retention and engagement at once. How can atwar engage the youth (gamers)? Has anything changed massively since 2010? The short answer is no, nothing changed at all. Risk is a board game like Chess. Has chess become boring since 3000 BC or so, when it was first played in China? No. Strategy games do not age. They improve by generation changes, graphics, and complexity. No strategy game could ever replicate reality 100%, so in fact, atwar is fine for a few more decades at least. It is not "aging" in this term.
I would say risk is almost as popular as chess, they're even competing in western cultures. This theoretically means in terms of available people - as long as atwar has no competitor in this area, - we are absolutely fine. A very easy concept that has been developed into a virtual strategy game. The unique value of atwar relies in this. We should stick to this matter as it's an amazing resource for advertisement (unless we find something better, highly doubt it).
We should return to the roots instead. Why do people prefer atwar? Why would they spend 3 hours conquering the world as China: Southeast instead of sitting in front of their newest Creative Assembly (total war), Taleword (mount and blade), Paradox Interactive (hearts of iron), or Firaxis (civilization) games? Because it's different. It's based on a board game (risk), and started developing in a way that is outstanding, plus eventually managed to find a marketing gap, either by accident or on purpose. To understand this let's take a look back to the early development of atwar.
UNIQUITY OF ATWAR
Now investigate atwar's essential strength (compared to risk board game and strategy games):
1. Besides world map it offers an astonishing customization option, the map editor (which is similar to modding, user-generated sandbox is always attractive for strategy gamers in my experience), where you can replicate and change about everything in the game, setup your own playground.
2. Great potential in the cities-countries system, which also provides the opportunity for further implementations.
3. It features several - on paper unlimited - different types of units, like in modern strategy games.
4. Given the fact we are online, it's a great social activity if you consider that Hearts of Iron or Civilization multiplayer lobbies are almost dead. Their communities live on the games' forums, private communities and such. Atwar can't and shouldn't try to compete with large titles, it's an entirely different story.
4.1. We utilize people to people combat, both real time and casual strategy. That's extraordinary.
5. Quality of Life focused, clean and modern UI design. Brilliant solutions that brought and then upgraded the concept of a board game.
6. Derives from the golden era of Total War series: turn based RTS, almost standalone idea.
And now the weaknesses, where we should definitely improve:
1. Overall design of the User Interface, map editor and such. The game was already giving retro vibes back in 2012-2014, now in 2021 this contrasts even more (in a bad meaning this time). The most important thing here is the in-game interface, obviously.
1.1. Add more colors, make the panels easier to handle, make it more user friendly, change the UI in a way suitable for future expansions and updates, like if it was designed for a 12 years old.
2. Quantity matters too - probably more than quality - in a strategy game. We need more units, more strategies, more CONTENT. This must remain nearly ignorant to the parallel quality changes (adding two buttons or three to the interface and changing the background shouldn't prevent us from adding logistic wizard strategy, right? object orientation in the development team too, please...)
2.1. Seasonality. 3 months for a cw season is a thing. On the other hand we don't get any content changes, or they are just minimal and disappointing, see point 2.
3. To make atwar more interesting and engaging, it needs depth. No, I don't mean witch doctor's and froyer's walling skills in cw. I mean things like improved diplomacy, more types of cities, units, generals (remember tank general? inner joke nevermind XD), better naval and air combat (ground dominates now).
4. Game settings tend to look like we are in a beta phase. Limited to 20 players, then limited to 40. Limited to 4 teams. You cannot disable buildings. You need premium to have extra cities. This can be modified either way: add more premium options as the game develops or make it a free feature and focus premium on something else. As JUGERS once said, we need more customization, not less. He might have been wrong with the buildings, but in general, he was right.
5. Development is so diverse and elitist, every single update I've seen so far in the last 3 years was focusing on bugfixes and improving CW. Dave please, a decade passed, listen to the peasants not the nobles. I promise it will benefit all of us. We need ranked games, new game modes, not improving fucking eu 3v3 cw. We can keep eu 3v3 cw nearly the same even if the game has a lot of news to it... so the 10 years old atwar players can satisfy themselves in the old cw, incubated... whatever.
6. This is a counter argument here. Nobody cares about toxicity. We don't have 80 games running in the beginner lobby so that we can ban people like waffel. They're one of the most important members of the community. Fortnite players will never come to atwar. I believe our vast majority of players are mature adults, and only minor percentage of them is toxic, like the rest of the internet (...)
PERSONAL SUGGESTIONS
1. AI for the neutrals. Complicated but probably worth the efforts.
2. More diplomacy options, for example a reworked system where you can trade your resources or land to someone.
2.1. Bound resources to countries, for example natural gas in Russia: Siberia. Do not question it. Ask people. Implement it.
3. Quality of Life improvements like auto-unit-moving? For example if you hold down CTRL key and click 3 places, the unit will try to move to those places in the next 3 turns, except if it's interrupted by a player's wall or the sea. This is very useful if we want to add more complexity to the game, it saves a lot of time, similar to auto-production.
4. Map views. If more things are implemented, it's necessary to add more views to the map. I mean an income view that ranges from green to red to see where is the most money on the map, a reinforcements view, a naval view, an air view, etcetera. Not just stealth detection and move range views.
4.1. This game lacks missiles. I don't care how you implement it. Maybe Notify the player with a red spot above the city or something that indicates a rocket is coming in next turn, so you cannot abuse the 100 move range of a rocket. It should also be more limited. This is related to world map now, but it would be even greater for custom maps.
5. Steam and Epic Games sound not good but NECESSARY steps to keep the game alive and grow it. Is it on steam? No. Will we have less players if no one clicks on our steam advert? No. Then no comment. Even though, the game should be improved for this... in first hand.
6. More types of units. Or just simply more units. How long are we asking for trucks, trains, aircraft carriers, cruisers (...) ?
7. One general is a nice minimalistic thing, very good for competitive play. Larger scenarios require stuff like a field officer unit update, similar to general, it could be highlighted with some different element instead of a star with different bonuses and upgrades.
8. The upgrades. Holy moly. Double it. Triple it. Quadruple it. Make current ones cheaper. More premium options. End of story.
9. As I mentioned the UI is trash. You already know this by now Dave, and everyone else, but still I have to mention it. The chat keeps jumping down to the newest message, spectators' message can still be seen after ignoring, I don't know if moderators have a panel with buttons or they still use commands, lack of kick and host swap options in the lobby, unpleasantly aged forum, some menus are hard to find or are in the inappropriate spot (like the elo calculator), etc...
10. A variety of ranked games, not just cw. This would be great for a more challenging, but also more rewarding (sp, pc) game mode. There has been dozens of cw suggestions, I won't go into this in depth now. But keep in mind that cw at the moment is fine, and absolutely not prior #1 to change. Keep it as it is for now.
11. Numerous other things, I could write a book, but hopefully you got the idea by now. Whoever you are dear reader if you got this far, bless you.
SOLUTIONS FOR RETENTION
The whole point of my long message summarized, let's see.
In order to gain players and solve this retention issue the answer is quite simple. We need continuity. We need to continously, seasonally upgrade the game, hence why I provided ideas above. There is a lot to add or change to make the game more attractive and engaging for newcomers. Atwar has twitter, discord, even facebook if I know right, so we should start posting about the new MASSIVE updates there. Not two new strategy and one of them is taken away again. No... This leads to nowhere.
Generally speaking, twitter and discord are good to keep the community engaged and active, but the most important thing is probably twitch or youtube (and epic games or steam for obvious reasons as mentioned before...). I would support Sid in his videos but let's face the fact that he is an unpopular person on youtube. Who play games? The youth. How will we attract the youth? Through videos and streams. That's the current trend.
For example we should invest into some strategy game player with 200 thousand subscribers on youtube, asking him to make a professional showcase video or gameplay series of atwar. Now think about it for a second. Is atwar ready for this level of advertisement? Or we need to change a lot of stuff. Yes. If you think about it, we need to change a lot of stuff. What arre you waiting for... go continue coding or giving ideas to Dave.
In my opinion this is the straightforward way to success. Not only to bring atwar back to life, but to gain a larger playerbase than we ever had. It's not as hard as you think. And I think I have not said anything new. Just the fact we all know. We need content to advertise. Then advertise to gain content idea, then repeat. This is the definition of development.
Thanks for reading it all, greetings.
P.S.: Ivan and Sun Tzu are possibly the most competent people who understand this problem. Excluding Sid and Dave.
The most well made forum post I've seen yet, give it an upvote
We have plans for everything you just said. Just need volunteers
Alois the puppet master has work for everyone, just needs obedient volunteers and human labor to execute them. You aren't his equal, just the puppet master.
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 Dave (Administrator)
Napisao Asylan, 20.06.2021 at 21:31
Napisao Alois, 19.06.2021 at 18:00
We have plans for everything you just said. Just need volunteers
I have been rejected as a mod here several years ago, I was softly rejected as an admin recently, and when I applied as a supporter, YOU answered me that I get a role in the Helper Team. That is not what I applied for and you gave me no context so I handled this as a joke and another rejection.
I'm done in this regard. I wish you'll find people with this attitude.
More bureaucracy than the IRS tbh. You'll prob spend 3 years of your life proving to the supporter team that you can be a "reliable" "helpful" "team-player", by doing menial jobs like running events, and then help chat, and then they'll promise you that you can code in the near future... and always in the near future, but never actually give you that carrot. You'll be worked to the bone and then cast aside.
But who doesn't like playing God. 
Just to be clear on one point, no one from the atWar community will be allowed access to code, no matter how skilled they may be. For security (and, frankly, liability) reasons, programming will only be done by myself or one of my employees. We would never promise that anyone can help code, because its simply not an option. (I've said this before, and I'm saying it again.)
As for the rest, I don't want any volunteer to ever feel "worked to the bone" (whether as a supporter, moderator, or admin)... atWar is supposed to be something we do for fun, that's all. Yes we're very selective who we choose to represent the game, but of those we choose we're grateful for any time they contribute, without any expectations that they owe us anything. And specifically with the Supporter vs Helper Team thing, I don't know if Pavle plans to continue it that way or not (it's up to him) -- but in general I would support there being LESS bureaucracy, not more.
----
 | All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer,
but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.
--Sun Tzu
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Napisao Dave, 21.06.2021 at 06:28
Napisao Asylan, 20.06.2021 at 21:31
Napisao Alois, 19.06.2021 at 18:00
We have plans for everything you just said. Just need volunteers
I have been rejected as a mod here several years ago, I was softly rejected as an admin recently, and when I applied as a supporter, YOU answered me that I get a role in the Helper Team. That is not what I applied for and you gave me no context so I handled this as a joke and another rejection.
I'm done in this regard. I wish you'll find people with this attitude.
More bureaucracy than the IRS tbh. You'll prob spend 3 years of your life proving to the supporter team that you can be a "reliable" "helpful" "team-player", by doing menial jobs like running events, and then help chat, and then they'll promise you that you can code in the near future... and always in the near future, but never actually give you that carrot. You'll be worked to the bone and then cast aside.
But who doesn't like playing God.
Just to be clear on one point, no one from the atWar community will be allowed access to code, no matter how skilled they may be. For security (and, frankly, liability) reasons, programming will only be done by myself or one of my employees. We would never promise that anyone can help code, because its simply not an option. (I've said this before, and I'm saying it again.)
As for the rest, I don't want any volunteer to ever feel "worked to the bone" (whether as a supporter, moderator, or admin)... atWar is supposed to be something we do for fun, that's all. Yes we're very selective who we choose to represent the game, but of those we choose we're grateful for any time they contribute, without any expectations that they owe us anything. And specifically with the Supporter vs Helper Team thing, I don't know if Pavle plans to continue it that way or not (it's up to him) -- but in general I would support there being LESS bureaucracy, not more.
This is a reach but how about bits and pieces of the code for people to do small tweaks to Quality of Life. Like for example the chunk of code that is for competitive... (the more and more I type this idea out, the more I know it's totally fruitless)
I think there needs to be a bit more flexibility and risk taking. The game isn't going to "fail" if the Supporter Team takes a risk.
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Dave (Administrator)
Napisao Asylan, 21.06.2021 at 21:03
This is a reach but how about bits and pieces of the code for people to do small tweaks to Quality of Life. Like for example the chunk of code that is for competitive... (the more and more I type this idea out, the more I know it's totally fruitless)
It's a nice idea but with the way atWar code is spread out, anything you would think of as a "1-line change" is probably 5 changes in random different places. It would be tough for anyone to figure anything out without access to the complete code 
Example: when I added the chat icons -- which you'd think would be a tiny little change -- it ended up nuking all casual games. Why on earth would those 2 things be related?? (Well there's a reason I figured out later, but it wasn't obvious... that's the kind of stuff I end up dealing with so often here....)
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| All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer,
but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.
--Sun Tzu
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Napisao Dave, 21.06.2021 at 21:18
Napisao Asylan, 21.06.2021 at 21:03
This is a reach but how about bits and pieces of the code for people to do small tweaks to Quality of Life. Like for example the chunk of code that is for competitive... (the more and more I type this idea out, the more I know it's totally fruitless)
It's a nice idea but with the way atWar code is spread out, anything you would think of as a "1-line change" is probably 5 changes in random different places. It would be tough for anyone to figure anything out without access to the complete code
Example: when I added the chat icons -- which you'd think would be a tiny little change -- it ended up nuking all casual games. Why on earth would those 2 things be related?? (Well there's a reason I figured out later, but it wasn't obvious... that's the kind of stuff I end up dealing with so often here.)
Yeah wonderful idea if the code was built modularly, but alas- it is just a patchwork. I don't think you would be down to rewrite the entire thing, would be a pain.
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Napisao Asylan, 21.06.2021 at 21:25
Yeah wonderful idea if the code was built modularly, but alas- it is just a patchwork. I don't think you would be down to rewrite the entire thing, would be a pain.
Definitely no one else will make a game called atPeace, recreating the same idea of atWar, and eventually murder atWar. This is something that never happens in IT. It's absolutely impossible even on the surface level. Recreation of atWar's code would take at least as much time as a Need For Speed game from scratch, alone. Look at that graphics and the size it captures on your video card. AtWar is gross. Dave should clone and replicate himself into 20 more Daves to only gain the ability to create the half of this such divine videogame, which would still take a year at least.
To Dave because I'm tired of this virtual arguement:
A) remain ignorant
B) do it alone
C) get help
D) sell it
Each option has its pros and cons. I'm not the lead dev so it's up to you. Have a nice day.
P.S. recruiting Mecoy was a golden one. Keep it up.
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Nope
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https://prnt.sc/W3aEpwbpEwEU
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Dave (Administrator)
Yup
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| All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer,
but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.
--Sun Tzu
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