More Power to Mapmakers

Napisao notserral, 21.01.2015 at 11:28

Yeah, but the average number of players online is 500+, if the community was so behind it, it'd have much more views, right? Regardless, complete control over banning will probably never happen.

It is very nice from your part to reply though. At page 7 or 8 I've asked both sides to clarify their opinion in just one reply. This is the reply I've got:

Napisao Tundy, 17.01.2015 at 16:54

I am not going to make any official reply as i don't represent 100% of the map makers [...]

I guess Mods were pretty clear in their reply, while Map Markers are just replying one-part of the post. None of them is really talking to the other. No organization at all.

Napisao Quantum027, 21.01.2015 at 11:32

Bonker, we tried to talk about this to the mods in many threads and in many chats, but the mods didnt care at all what we wanted, even if we dont represent the entire community we still represent a part of it so we do still have a voice just as every dick trashing us, so the fact that we went on strike isnt an irrational decision. we tried to talk to the mods, but all they did was remove some bans and put a law in place that I feel does not clearly state guidelines and is counter-productive to the community. so stop blaming map makers for this issue, we have tried many times to talk to mods but they are reluctant to listen and the only option we had left was to revert to what we did last time, strike.

You guys didn't tried to talk with them. I can still see many Map Markers saying different opinions. How can you ever call this a "talk" ? Have you ever talked with Tunder or Aetius about this matter? How you really expect us, the community, to take this serious when you say something, Tunder say another thing, Kentucky say other thing, and ever bonker and columna say another very different thing? Why you guys can't talk and then come here united, like a real Team?

I guess you guys fits the position of "Map Makers group" since nor you nor your supposed comrades are acting like a team. You don't have the right to say "we". And please don't, because we would assume you are talking for the Map Makers when you are actually talking about yourself.

My reply is still unanswered:

Napisao clovis1122, 17.01.2015 at 06:28

As far as I can see, none of the mods want to recognize the impact of the "Strike" in the creation on ban-list, but rather say "It was made because mods made it possible". I don't know about the matter, which is also off-topic. Either way, thanks for show interest in the negotiation.

Now is time for Map Markers to stand clear. The other side already clarified their points, but as far as I can see the Map Markers are very divided between the need of evidence or not.

Maybe an official reply which have the support of the majority of the Map Markers involved? It could be planned in PM. Preferably one that answer the following questions:

1. Purpose: Why are we complaining? What do we want? Reason for make this kind of post + brief explanation of the matter.

2. Arguments: Why what we say is right? Provide arguments about your reasoning. Also, introduce the main idea of this post.

3. "Thesis" (Blame google traductor if it i bad written): What are the high and bad of our proposal? You must analyze both the good and bad points of the proposal. His effects at both short and long term in the community AND the map / Scenarios mechanic. A graphic like this would give it more credibly: http://s157.photobucket.com/user/vsatwar/media/awcommunity_zps37d1a378.jpg.html

4. Conclusion: Anything else? For those topics that are second-line among the initial purpose (ex: Is there any disagreement or different proposal in which the MapMarkers disagree or are not very united in?)


On a more important note, that post need to be discussed among the Map Markers. Posting something incomplete or that lead to fights among the own map markers will only show how disunited you guys are. Something that doesn't answer the original purposes and plus, need an Ad Hoc response will also be taken into account.

Is good to have many leaders on one side, but I might want to say that most of the Latin American countries didn't progressed exactly because that. We call them "caudillos". I hope you guys can deal out with those "caudillos" and avoid them posting here unnecessary replies.

All I can say. Guys, be serious!!!!

Napisao Tundy, 21.01.2015 at 12:26

Napisao Goblin, 21.01.2015 at 12:21

Napisao Tundy, 21.01.2015 at 11:56

You know how many people have played GGG? 23,000.
Death of rome? 2400
King of the hill? 3600

The numbers don't lie, the people that are reporting are a minority.

Sorry but ...how did you calculate this numbers thunder?

Number of plays x number of spots needed for the game to be full.

Im sorry but thats wrong, you cant use that kind of simple formula to count how many players played a certain map.

Its like me playing King of the Hill 20 times ...and you saying its 20 different players.

Napisao Goblin, 21.01.2015 at 12:41

Napisao Tundy, 21.01.2015 at 12:26

Napisao Goblin, 21.01.2015 at 12:21

Napisao Tundy, 21.01.2015 at 11:56

You know how many people have played GGG? 23,000.
Death of rome? 2400
King of the hill? 3600

The numbers don't lie, the people that are reporting are a minority.

Sorry but ...how did you calculate this numbers thunder?

Number of plays x number of spots needed for the game to be full.

Im sorry but thats wrong, you cant use that kind of simple formula to count how many players played a certain map.

Its like me playing King of the Hill 20 times ...and you saying its 20 different players.

Is this the longest thread in Afterwind history?

Napisao Quantum027, 21.01.2015 at 11:32

Bonker, we tried to talk about this to the mods in many threads and in many chats, but the mods didnt care at all what we wanted, even if we dont represent the entire community we still represent a part of it so we do still have a voice just as every dick trashing us, so the fact that we went on strike isnt an irrational decision. we tried to talk to the mods, but all they did was remove some bans and put a law in place that I feel does not clearly state guidelines and is counter-productive to the community. so stop blaming map makers for this issue, we have tried many times to talk to mods but they are reluctant to listen and the only option we had left was to revert to what we did last time, strike.

It's not that they don't care what you want, they just see the future and the problems that this can cause.

i dislike this rhetoric that anyone is blaming anyone, or that one side is wrong another is right, this sort of viewpoint is making a standoff between the sides. The trouble is you guys have no intention to compromise at all, imo the mods are willing to you are not. you are right and nobody will sway your opinion (even though you already been told NO) I don't support taking maps down at all, as I said it just hurts the users who enjoy our work, repeating striking does nothing to help only does damage.

The mods will listen, but not when you resort to these tactics to get what you want. because someone does not agree does not mean they are not listening.

Anyway else think Clovis's new sig is ironic af

Napisao Goblin, 21.01.2015 at 12:41

Napisao Tundy, 21.01.2015 at 12:26

Napisao Goblin, 21.01.2015 at 12:21

Napisao Tundy, 21.01.2015 at 11:56

You know how many people have played GGG? 23,000.
Death of rome? 2400
King of the hill? 3600

The numbers don't lie, the people that are reporting are a minority.

Sorry but ...how did you calculate this numbers thunder?

Number of plays x number of spots needed for the game to be full.

Im sorry but thats wrong, you cant use that kind of simple formula to count how many players played a certain map.

Its like me playing King of the Hill 20 times ...and you saying its 20 different players.

there is no better accurate way to make any estimate number. even if 50% of the spots were filled by the same people you still have up to 11,500.
yet only 1 person has ever complained about my abuse?

Napisao Skittzophrenic, 21.01.2015 at 13:15

Is this the longest thread in Afterwind history?

nice rank 800 forum noob.ofcourse it is not

Nice, Took me my entire turn to take both ss, and i am UK.
next turn i am going to get murder because i had no time to wall, since i wasted 4 minutes taking SS and adding cause of ban to my list before i forget.

Napisao clovis1122, 17.01.2015 at 06:28

All I can say. Guys, be serious!!!!

My position on the "Banlist controversy"

Why banning from maps and scenarios should not be handled freely by any map-maker?
Map-makers should be the first to defend the responsible use of banlists

Banlist, where does it come from?

A couple of months ago two issues were brought up by the community, with special participation of a selected group of map-makers. The first issue was related to the excessive SP retribution of some maps/scenarios and the second issue was related to an increasing number of maps and scenarios (specially scenarios) that resulted in failed games because of the behavior of some players. Leaving in first turn (or very early stage of game), trolling, unbalancing teams, wall-fucking (first turn ofc.) not sticking to particular rules of the game (specially scenarios), etc. were very frequent and some map-makers were really getting annoyed and pissed-off. Self-regulation was an uncontrollable option some map-makers took; "banned list in map" and unpublishing of maps/scenarios as consequence (for the whole community).

As to the first issue - SP over-retribution - the solution was quickly implemented, since there is a vast majority consensus as at is and what isn't SP farming and that there should be set a limit to it. Nevertheless, there were initial complains about the implementation of this regulation tool; now it seems that the community got used to it. On average, no game should give an SP retribution above an average standard. If it does, SP nerfs are applied.
Just to remind you, SP farming maps have 2 ways f being dealt with, either they are "hidden" by Mods (if it is about excessive SP farming and medal farming) or an SP nerf percentage is applied.

The second issue - related to a capability of banning specific players from own or hosted maps/scenarios - was fiercely discussed between map makers, mods, admins and other players. It took a while to settle the issue, it took a longer while to implement it into the AW platform; the latter not because of lack of willingness from the admins, but rather because of other programming priorities at that time.
Hurray! Finally the community got the so expected tool for putting an end to the main causes of failed games (again, specially of scenarios): we got the 3 in 1 tool called banlist.

Banlist, how was/is it used?

Some map-makers quickly moved to organize themselves in groups to settle some standards for the application of the banlist features, specially the banning from own maps/scenarios. Some used transparent arguments, mainly scree-shots, and sticked to the innitial purpose of banning players that jeopardized the enjoyability of games. There were no a priori bans (meaning no player was banned because he could represent a danger to the map/scenario) but rather a banning policy based on evidence.
After these initial weeks (or months), some map-makers started to ban players from their maps because they felt insulted or trolled (in lobby and not in game) or just didn't like specific players. This represented, somehow and in my personal view, a breaking with the original idea of the banlist and the power delegated to the map-maker community.
In my personal view, a map-maker should stand above all this trolling and insults and rather use the "normal" report function to get rid of the players that are harassing them. Banning from maps/scenarios is not the proper answer to these issues, since this tool was developed and installed to protect maps/scenarios from game enjoyment jeopardizing behavior.

Among the map-maker community - which isn't homogeneous at all! - there were discerning opinions as how to use the banlist. Some defended the free use, others the responsible use and sticking to its original purpose.

Banlist, what should be the general perspective?

A couple of months ago (July 2014) I presented the following basic idea (my understanding of the "banlist complex"):

Citiraj:

Banlist is actually a 3 in 1 tool to enhance the AW experience.

Lets go through it. It says:
Tired of trolls? Here you can minimize their impact on your playing experience. Simply add annoying players to your personal banlist and tick the appropriate checkboxes.

Ignore messages = hide all forum and chat messages, block PMs.
Ban from my games = players won't be able to join the games you started.
Ban from my maps/scenarios = players won't be able to start or join games that use your maps or scenarios.

IMO, there are two functions that are open for any player to decide whom to include in the banlist; specifically "Ignore messages" and "Ban from my games". I think that any player should have the ability to choose with whom to play a game and who shall not have the possibility to impact negatively on the gaming experience. Usually players will include other players in these categories , based on their past experience of being trolled, harassed or anything else. It is like making a semi-public (not public, nor private) game with all other AW members except the ones a specific player dislikes.

On the other hand, there is the third function that has to be dealt more carefully. Again, it is my personal opinion, as opposed to the one position that dislikes completely the existence of the banlist feature and, also, contrary to the position that it is a map/scenario maker's personal decision whom to ban and who not from a map/scenario.
This third option goes beyond a mere personal gaming experience, it impacts directly on the gaming experience of a whole community. For example: if I ban a certain player from a map/scenario of mine, this player won't be able to play them, even if they are not hosted by me. It goes, in this sense, beyond my experience (since I'm not involved in the particular game) and "only" affects the banned player's experience.
When does it make sense to ban a player from a set of maps/scenarios? It makes sense, when a specific player -through his behavior- affects other players positive gaming experience. These negative impacts are mainly: leaving scenarios at an early point of a game and/or without reasons, wall-fucking, spamming game chat, constantly harassing other players, etc.
In these cases, I think the bans from maps/scenarios have to be dealt with care and transparency; leaving little space for speculation and, thus, little room for abuse and personal imposition.

Banlist, what should follow?

I would still insist that there is a need for self-regulation of banlists, specially departing from a common understanding as for the reasons of banns and the procedures of including a player on a banlist.
We need protocols on bans and an observatory for a collective decision on the forms of applying the bans.

I think it is possible to construct these mechanisms; I'm very interested in promoting this process.

Napisao Tundy, 21.01.2015 at 14:52

Nice, Took me my entire turn to take both ss, and i am UK.
next turn i am going to get murder because i had no time to wall, since i wasted 4 minutes taking SS and adding cause of ban to my list before i forget.

i feel you,but what can you do man.there is no clear solution to this,other than ss ing.remember its not personal,i would place my trust on you, but who can trust all map makers to be fair.You ask for a power that is very easily abused and have been already proven to be abused by alot of map makers.Tough luck i would say.At least you have a banlist.Last year you didnt

To all mapmakers:

If an admin, by their own judgement, labeled you as a faggot and banned you (with no evidence of you being a faggot) from the entire site of atwar, would you simply take it and move on, or would you go to the mods for an appeal?

If you want to answer this, only state if you would take it or appeal to mods, then maybe an explanation why. Anything else would be irrelevant.

Napisao Fockmeeard, 21.01.2015 at 15:13

To all mapmakers:

If an admin, by their own judgement, labeled you as a faggot and banned you (with no evidence of you being a faggot) from the entire site of atwar, would you simply take it and move on, or would you go to the mods for an appeal?

If you want to answer this, only state if you would take it or appeal to mods, then maybe an explanation why. Anything else would be irrelevant.

i am pretty sure that if insult mods and admins everyday, i will be perma-banned for a personal reason.
your point?

are you implying map makers ban people at random?

Napisao Fockmeeard, 21.01.2015 at 15:13

To all mapmakers:

If an admin, by their own judgement, labeled you as a faggot and banned you (with no evidence of you being a faggot) from the entire site of atwar, would you simply take it and move on, or would you go to the mods for an appeal?

Your logic here is ..."if a supreme court sentenced you i could appeal to a sheriff" ...you must have meant the other way.

I'm bored of handing money over to AtWar when in the few days I have off from work I can't play the maps I want to. At the end of the day the domain/website owners that monetise AtWar, do for a matter of fact own all players creations ie maps and should clone all the maps of those on strike and post them for free hosting for everyone to enjoy. Otherwise this is the last month that AtWar gets any money from me.

Napisao Monte Cristo, 21.01.2015 at 16:32

I'm bored of handing money over to AtWar when in the few days I have off from work I can't play the maps I want to. At the end of the day the domain/website owners that monetise AtWar, do for a matter of fact own all players creations ie maps and should clone all the maps of those on strike and post them for free hosting for everyone to enjoy. Otherwise this is the last month that AtWar gets any money from me.

Let them clone my map when i finish it ...im sure that the artist from who i have "taken" his copyrighted background will be happy to sue someone with money and not my broke ass.

Citiraj:

After these initial weeks (or months), some map-makers started to ban players from their maps because they felt insulted or trolled (in lobby and not in game) or just didn't like specific players. This represented, somehow and in my personal view, a breaking with the original idea of the banlist and the power delegated to the map-maker community.

Citiraj:

...On the other hand, there is the third function that has to be dealt more carefully. Again, it is my personal opinion, as opposed to the one position that dislikes completely the existence of the banlist feature and, also, contrary to the position that it is a map/scenario maker's personal decision whom to ban and who not from a map/scenario.
This third option goes beyond a mere personal gaming experience, it impacts directly on the gaming experience of a whole community. For example: if I ban a certain player from a map/scenario of mine, this player won't be able to play them, even if they are not hosted by me. It goes, in this sense, beyond my experience (since I'm not involved in the particular game) and "only" affects the banned player's experience.
When does it make sense to ban a player from a set of maps/scenarios? It makes sense, when a specific player -through his behavior- affects other players positive gaming experience. These negative impacts are mainly: leaving scenarios at an early point of a game and/or without reasons, wall-fucking, spamming game chat, constantly harassing other players, etc.
In these cases, I think the bans from maps/scenarios have to be dealt with care and transparency; leaving little space for speculation and, thus, little room for abuse and personal imposition.

Citiraj:

i feel you,but what can you do man.there is no clear solution to this,other than ss ing.remember its not personal,i would place my trust on you, but who can trust all map makers to be fair.You ask for a power that is very easily abused and have been already proven to be abused by alot of map makers.

This about sums my opinion up. I just think it unfair for one to be completely banned from a map unless they are an absolute troll and always, without fail, ruin games for the sole purpose of...well being a trol. When a map-maker decides "I don't like this person, MAP BAN" it's wrong on so many levels. Its not that I assume every map maker does this, but it'd be foolish to expect them all to be responsible, and even the most responsible person gets pissed and thinks irationally. It's honestly just asking for personal feelings to get involved, as soon as I saw it I saw the potential for these issues. I am of the opinion "ban from games" is enough and "ban from scenarios/maps" is a mostly unnecessary, easily abused feature.

Napisao Monte Cristo, 21.01.2015 at 16:32

I'm bored of handing money over to AtWar when in the few days I have off from work I can't play the maps I want to. At the end of the day the domain/website owners that monetise AtWar, do for a matter of fact own all players creations ie maps and should clone all the maps of those on strike and post them for free hosting for everyone to enjoy. Otherwise this is the last month that AtWar gets any money from me.

I don't think they can just clone a map that a guy put hours of hard work on it and then pretend it's all their merit... it doesn't feel right. Map makers are still people with feelings... if you were on their spot, would it feel nice??

Napisao Monte Cristo, 21.01.2015 at 16:32

I'm bored of handing money over to AtWar when in the few days I have off from work I can't play the maps I want to. At the end of the day the domain/website owners that monetise AtWar, do for a matter of fact own all players creations ie maps and should clone all the maps of those on strike and post them for free hosting for everyone to enjoy. Otherwise this is the last month that AtWar gets any money from me.

When nobody makes any more maps you will know why

Napisao b0nker2, 21.01.2015 at 13:26

Napisao Quantum027, 21.01.2015 at 11:32

Bonker, we tried to talk about this to the mods in many threads and in many chats, but the mods didnt care at all what we wanted, even if we dont represent the entire community we still represent a part of it so we do still have a voice just as every dick trashing us, so the fact that we went on strike isnt an irrational decision. we tried to talk to the mods, but all they did was remove some bans and put a law in place that I feel does not clearly state guidelines and is counter-productive to the community. so stop blaming map makers for this issue, we have tried many times to talk to mods but they are reluctant to listen and the only option we had left was to revert to what we did last time, strike.

It's not that they don't care what you want, they just see the future and the problems that this can cause.

i dislike this rhetoric that anyone is blaming anyone, or that one side is wrong another is right, this sort of viewpoint is making a standoff between the sides. The trouble is you guys have no intention to compromise at all, imo the mods are willing to you are not. you are right and nobody will sway your opinion (even though you already been told NO) I don't support taking maps down at all, as I said it just hurts the users who enjoy our work, repeating striking does nothing to help only does damage.

The mods will listen, but not when you resort to these tactics to get what you want. because someone does not agree does not mean they are not listening.

How are the mods willing, please show me with quotes where the mods have been trying to give us freedoms on the ban list, they havent and you are completely bsing this thread by claiming that the mods are trying to do anything to benefit the map makers. The mods are not listening, they are hearing but they arent listening at all, they just read the posts and ignore it in their decisions, why do I think that? because nothing said here has changed anything for the mods, they still have this stubborn idea that map makers are all uneducated art noobs and they view us as less than dirt, so ofc i have no respect for them or their terrible management of the community.

Napisao Quantum027, 22.01.2015 at 11:21

they still have this stubborn idea that map makers are all uneducated art noobs and they view us as less than dirt, so ofc i have no respect for them or their terrible management of the community.

Oh come on, stop allucinating, no one thinks of map makers anything like that! Why do you even feel like that??

Napisao Fockmeeard, 21.01.2015 at 15:13

To all mapmakers:

If an admin, by their own judgement, labeled you as a faggot and banned you (with no evidence of you being a faggot) from the entire site of atwar, would you simply take it and move on, or would you go to the mods for an appeal?

If you want to answer this, only state if you would take it or appeal to mods, then maybe an explanation why. Anything else would be irrelevant.

i wouldnt go to mods, 1 mods dont have power against admins (because unlike mods I know how chain of power works) and even then I have no confidence in mods going against admins or sticking their neck out for someone who doesnt suck their dick

Napisao RaulPB, 22.01.2015 at 11:24

Napisao Quantum027, 22.01.2015 at 11:21

they still have this stubborn idea that map makers are all uneducated art noobs and they view us as less than dirt, so ofc i have no respect for them or their terrible management of the community.

Oh come on, stop allucinating, no one thinks of map makers anything like that! Why do you even feel like that??

Your sarcasm is so easy to detect, shall I bring in every serious thread we have had that is ruined by 3v3 EU+ trolls like MOU and Laochra and others spamming hate on us? Mods are almost always the same way, just less obvious with it

Napisao Quantum027, 22.01.2015 at 11:27

Napisao RaulPB, 22.01.2015 at 11:24

Oh come on, stop allucinating, no one thinks of map makers anything like that! Why do you even feel like that??

Your sarcasm is so easy to detect, shall I bring in every serious thread we have had that is ruined by 3v3 EU+ trolls like MOU and Laochra and others spamming hate on us? Mods are almost always the same way, just less obvious with it

Well, sometimes people do behave a bit... hm... "unpolite"... anyway, it's not like if everyone thought map makers were the worst of the world. People just have their own opinions about this ban list issue and most of the community players are against it. That's the only reason you have for maybe feeling a bit ignored or offended... anyhow, mods don't troll you guys (as far as I am able to see), they limit to state their opinions and reasons here. Maybe some players may see you as whatever they like, but I haven't seen mods insulting or offending you... It's different that you might take their negative as something offending

Napisao RaulPB, 22.01.2015 at 11:32

People just have their own opinions about this ban list issue and most of the community players are against it.

Its quite the opposite, only a minority disagrees with map makers.

Napisao Tundy, 22.01.2015 at 11:38

Napisao RaulPB, 22.01.2015 at 11:32

People just have their own opinions about this ban list issue and most of the community players are against it.

Its quite the opposite, only a minority disagrees with map makers.

Minority? How do you know it's a minority? Cause if anyone has agreed with your demands, it's all map makers (from what I can see)...

Napisao RaulPB, 22.01.2015 at 11:40

Napisao Tundy, 22.01.2015 at 11:38

Napisao RaulPB, 22.01.2015 at 11:32

People just have their own opinions about this ban list issue and most of the community players are against it.

Its quite the opposite, only a minority disagrees with map makers.

Minority? How do you know it's a minority? Cause if anyone has agreed with your demands, it's all map makers (from what I can see)...

The difference here is that you and the people that disagree with map makers are just a fraction of all the people that play custom maps, and while map makers aren't a majority either - any change to our right and privileges affects ALL map makers.

Napisao Quantum027, 22.01.2015 at 11:21

they still have this stubborn idea that map makers are all uneducated art noobs and they view us as less than dirt, so ofc i have no respect for them or their terrible management of the community.

thank god u have a cute-ish face otherwise your life would be hard with your serious cases of psychosis, OCD, GAD and early signs of schizophrenia

Napisao Quantum027, 22.01.2015 at 11:21

How are the mods willing, please show me with quotes where the mods have been trying to give us freedoms on the ban list, they havent and you are completely bsing this thread by claiming that the mods are trying to do anything to benefit the map makers. The mods are not listening, they are hearing but they arent listening at all, they just read the posts and ignore it in their decisions, why do I think that? because nothing said here has changed anything for the mods, they still have this stubborn idea that map makers are all uneducated art noobs and they view us as less than dirt, so ofc i have no respect for them or their terrible management of the community.

"Player's Banlist
23.The mapmakers have the privilege to ban a player from playing on their map/scenario for breaking map/scenario rule's or leaving early in games that could potentially jeopardize the development of a game on their map/scenario; however, the mapmakers are not allowed to ban a player on a map/scenario for personal reasons or not describing the reasons for the ban. The mapmakers must provide proof, because players are assumed innocent until proven guilty. Any player can ban a player from joining the games they host for any reason.

Simplified:
- Players may ban other players from games they host for any reason.
- Map makers, when called upon, must justify the act of banning players from playing their maps/scenarios by including information/screen shots in the "Comments" spot on their ban lists."

I think you're proving the one(s) unwilling to compromise. If you really want to argue against this and ban a player on a map/scenario for personal reasons, IE "I DUN LIKE JOO CUZ JOO A FAGGUT", then it's hard to say you aren't just power-mongering. Also, you make bold claims about the mods and you generalize greatly. The reality is the mods, just as the map makers, are different people with different opinions and motives. That's the problem here. Yes, most map-makers are responsible, but there are still those who will abuse this power, and as stated previously it not only affects the player but the community. Even if not a single person did it now (which from what I gather several have), they will. Its a matter of time. You have to understand: It's part of being a MOD to have power. It comes with the word: To Moderate: To preside over. Them exercising this responsibility doesn't give everyone a free pass to do the same. Also, Columna Durruti (Sorry for butchering your name) and Pulse have responded directly to this issue, maybe more I don't care to scroll through and find. Get a hold of reality, dude. Just because people have a different opinion (and in my own opinion, a more sensible one) does not mean they hate you, or think you are a piece of shit, or are licking someone else's ass for brownie points.

But you'll probably ignore this like all the other posts (AKA COLUMNA DURRUTI'S ON PAGE 15 OR PULSE'S ON PAGE 14) that have made a modicum of sense and aren't just continual flaming crap. Honestly, it's over. The mod's dont agree with you, along with a fair portion of the general populace of AtWar. The Mod's have even managed to budge more than I honestly think they should have. Stop and think about who here is being modest and who isn't.

Napisao xHMGxParadox, 22.01.2015 at 12:16

Napisao Quantum027, 22.01.2015 at 11:21

How are the mods willing, please show me with quotes where the mods have been trying to give us freedoms on the ban list, they havent and you are completely bsing this thread by claiming that the mods are trying to do anything to benefit the map makers. The mods are not listening, they are hearing but they arent listening at all, they just read the posts and ignore it in their decisions, why do I think that? because nothing said here has changed anything for the mods, they still have this stubborn idea that map makers are all uneducated art noobs and they view us as less than dirt, so ofc i have no respect for them or their terrible management of the community.

"Player's Banlist
23.The mapmakers have the privilege to ban a player from playing on their map/scenario for breaking map/scenario rule's or leaving early in games that could potentially jeopardize the development of a game on their map/scenario; however, the mapmakers are not allowed to ban a player on a map/scenario for personal reasons or not describing the reasons for the ban. The mapmakers must provide proof, because players are assumed innocent until proven guilty. Any player can ban a player from joining the games they host for any reason.

Simplified:
- Players may ban other players from games they host for any reason.
- Map makers, when called upon, must justify the act of banning players from playing their maps/scenarios by including information/screen shots in the "Comments" spot on their ban lists."

I think you're proving the one(s) unwilling to compromise. If you really want to argue against this and ban a player on a map/scenario for personal reasons, IE "I DUN LIKE JOO CUZ JOO A FAGGUT", then it's hard to say you aren't just power-mongering. Also, you make bold claims about the mods and you generalize greatly. The reality is the mods, just as the map makers, are different people with different opinions and motives. That's the problem here. Yes, most map-makers are responsible, but there are still those who will abuse this power, and as stated previously it not only affects the player but the community. Even if not a single person did it now (which from what I gather several have), they will. Its a matter of time. You have to understand: It's part of being a MOD to have power. It comes with the word: To Moderate: To preside over. Them exercising this responsibility doesn't give everyone a free pass to do the same. Also, Columna Durruti (Sorry for butchering your name) and Pulse have responded directly to this issue, maybe more I don't care to scroll through and find. Get a hold of reality, dude. Just because people have a different opinion (and in my own opinion, a more sensible one) does not mean they hate you, or think you are a piece of shit, or are licking someone else's ass for brownie points.

But you'll probably ignore this like all the other posts (AKA COLUMNA DURRUTI'S ON PAGE 15 OR PULSE'S ON PAGE 14) that have made a modicum of sense and aren't just continual flaming crap. Honestly, it's over. The mod's dont agree with you, along with a fair portion of the general populace of AtWar. The Mod's have even managed to budge more than I honestly think they should have. Stop and think about who here is being modest and who isn't.

Who's your main?